ISEs3 Ep1: Scott Santucci – Before the Sales Enablement Society

ISEs3 Ep1: Scott Santucci - Before the Sales Enablement Society

Episode 64: ISE Season 3#1: BSES

Welcome to “season three” of Inside Sales Enablement …ISE – focused on Enablement History. I’m Erich Starrett. I started out in the ISE audience listening to SES Founding Father Scott Santucci and Trailblazer Dr. Brian Lambert‘, and then collaborated with them to build OrchestrateSales.com to be the global home for the ISE Podcast and related resources for Sales Enablement #Orchestrators, including Sales Enablement Society history.

It is the week of the seventh anniversary of the official signing of the SES into reality by the ~100 Fore-founders in Palm Beach, November of 2016. We begin ISE Season 3 with a focus on “Before the SES …and how it almost didn’t exist” with SPECIAL GUEST Sales Enablement Society Founding Father Scott Santucci himself.

And THOSE questions don’t even yet have us to the Palm Beach MEETING! Enjoy part one! Part two coming soon…

Transcript
VoiceOverGuy:

Welcome to the Inside Sales Enablement Podcast. Where has the profession been? Where is it now? And where is it heading? What does it mean to you? Your company? Other functions? The market? Find out here. The Inside Sales Enablement Podcast starts now.

Erich Starrett:

Man, is it good to hear that intro music and voiceover guy again? How about for y'all out there in insider nation? Hello and welcome to season three of Inside Sales Enablement focused on enablement history. I'm Eric Starrett, and I started out in the ISE audience listening to Sales Enablement Society founding father, Scott Santucci, and Trailblazer, Dr. Brian Lambert. And then collaborated with them to build orchestratesales. com the global home for the podcast and related resources for sales enablement orchestrators, including sales enablement society history. Why? Well, the foundation of cross functional enablement orchestration was established in the three founding positions signed into existence by the hundred ish fore founders of the SES back in Palm Beach in 2016, for which this very week, the is the seven year anniversary. So in celebration, after a few years of hiatus, I'm knocking the dust off of the orchestratesales. com property. As a sales enablement history nerd with a passion for the continued elevation of the profession, I see it as the sales enablement Smithsonian and an opportunity to serve you, the global enablement community. In revisiting the wisdom of the treasures therein, as well as uncover some new ones with a series of special guests, which may even include you. Today we begin ISE Season 3 with a focus on BEFORE there was the SES, and how it almost didn't even happen, with special guest, Sales Enablement Society founding father, Scott Santucci. Scott, great to have you here. this Sunday marks the seventh anniversary of the S. E. S. The founders meeting what I'd like to do with you today is hop in a time machine and take a look back getting. The straight shooting from the person who was there from the beginning and founded the global society. By way of introduction, for those who may not know, Scott Santucci was at Forrester and was part of founding the core operating group for sales enablement. Scott, maybe we could start there and just share a little bit about your background pre sales enablement society.

Scott Santucci:

Sure. in 2008, I had my own business called blueprint marketing. One of the things that we built were these sales work benches to help take a lot of complex content and allow salespeople to sort it. To have very specialized conversations based on stakeholders or stage in the sales cycle things like that. I sold that business to, to Forrester with the idea of building out a database based on very specific roles. Like, how would you navigate, an agreement network inside an IT organization? The very first report that I wrote at Forrester was called Engineering Valuable Sales Conversations, and that report laid out just this concept hey, we need to think about sales and marketing a little bit more differently. And in that role, at the time, I was an analyst in Forrester's market strategy function. So the way Forrester worked at the time was all of the products were organized around a role. There was content for CIOs, content for VPs and networking, content for B2C CMOs. So Forrester's Got tremendous depth of expertise in B2C marketing. I worked for technology vendor strategists. What I highlighted was, Hey, there's a big gap between strategy and execution. And this big gap of strategy and execution is an opportunity for a new role. So at the time it was very difficult because Forrester had really just moved into this new role. So they didn't know how to create new product offerings, new roles. So what I did was I got 20 executives. Into a room for an entire day, 10 of them were CMOs, 10 of them were VPs of sales, and we had an entire day's discussion to discuss what are these gaps, these strategic execution gaps. Because we didn't want to have the conversation about sales and marketing alignment because that was dated even in 2008. What we wanted to do is come up with a new idea, a new strategy. And that strategy became what we wrote out as the definition of what we called sales enablement. Which was taken from and agreed to by that group

Erich Starrett:

was that where it started? Was Sales Enablement always Sales Enablement? Or was there like a close second and third on the whiteboard that got crossed out?

Scott Santucci:

No one really could come up with a term. So we just said, and the concept of enablement was way more like an engineer's view or a city planner's view, not, um, how you enable a drug addict or something like that. It wasn't emotive. It was engineering y, strategic y, business process y, not functional or what people do or activity based. It had none of those vibes If you have a room of 10 CMOs and a room of 10, VPs of sales from different companies, so they don't have to worry about their internal politics and challenge them with gaps between the business strategy and friction that they have among their functions. You quickly realize that this is a architectural or it's a design problem. It's not a, who does what I own this, you own that problem. So because of that, and because the goal was by the end of the day to come up with a document, a statement that people could agree with, it creates that that good forcing function to do that. So we have this document, we have a whole bunch of energy. We had Forrester executives in the room like, wow, this is a new thing that we should get behind us. We should sponsor, a role for it. So we did a deep dive. So when people looked at that inside Forrester, there are people who would say that's already a job that product marketing does. Look, we'll show you, look, it's right here. Look at the product marketing, pragmatic marketing. It says right here, sales enablements, it's this stuff. And then there are other people say no. That's what sales training does. And we said, look at this definition that we came up with. It's neither of those things, though, those things are subordinate to this bigger picture. So yes, it is true. Product marketing needs to do some of those activities. Yes, it's true. Training need to do some of those things, but they have to be in service of something much bigger or else they're not connected. So we did deep dives. We had to go and interview. I think 50 companies, we had to plot out where they were. And then we had to figure out, whether Forrester would make money doing that. And if we would, what kind of money would we make making that a role. And that was the goal. And we had four conferences with specific themes. The 1st conference theme was separate ways, world apart,

Erich Starrett:

sounds like a song.

Scott Santucci:

It is a song. Yeah. It's a journey song. All of them have songs, right? You have the walkout song and we connected it to it. And we just did a lot of the executive decision maker research. To bring to light the research that we had from executive decision makers and how huge the gap is. And it was getting worse. And I would say, fast forward 2023, it's even way worse now in 2000, not 2010. We introduced this whole concept of working backwards from outcomes. That was our HERO conference. How do you evolve to be a sales enablement hero? The HERO, who are you a HERO for? You're CEO. And HERO is an acronym. Holistic, Engineered, Reality Based, and Ongoing Operations. Then the next conference after that was Accelerating Your Growth Initiative. We had George colony talk about CEOs perspectives and we had our CFO talk about CFO perspectives and. We talked about how sales and marketing are becoming complex, adaptive systems, and you need to have different strategies for that. And then the last conference that I was there was our growth agenda, where we gave people canvases, actual canvases to start plot that were done in layers to plot those things out. What was very interesting is by the time 2014 came about, there were two schools, a thought there were director and manager level people who viewed sales as it sells the name went more as this job description or role and it was about activities and who does what. And then there was a collection of people that looked at it more strategic, which was, hey, we do need to be at that synapse between corporate strategy and and execution. We do need to build strong alliances with the finance department and we do need to, build bridges between product. Groups who have a number and sales groups who also have a number, but their numbers are very different. We do need to be able to create layers in terms of market materials instead of making everything about a product. So that's what we did, but that was, I would say less than 30 percent of our customer base. But those people way higher up in the organization. I left Forrester to join Alexander group to work with those strategic people. So that's the background. We use the word sales enablement for a bunch of reasons. One is we Wanted to pick a word that didn't really have a standard. We had a bias that enablement is more like architecture. You design something and you enable stuff to happen. You don't enable by doing things for people you enable by designing and letting, people be just paying attention to it. So that's the prequel

Erich Starrett:

you've created this title sales enablement. There are things being produced and sent out into the world. When did it go from what I'll call behind the boardroom walls out into the place where it started to be to become a society? Once that information got out, where did the seeds of this external society start?

Scott Santucci:

So there were a collection of tech vendors. That existed that called themselves sales, excellence, sales, enablement, things like that.

Erich Starrett:

Like SAVO I think was maybe one of those.

Scott Santucci:

Yeah. There were ones even before So for example, I met Tim Riesterer, or When he was at a company called Ventaso. And Ventaso was a business, I think in the 2005 zone where they're trying to build like a database of messages to help match the right messages to to other people. Jody Kavanaugh had a company called Launch International that she sold to Corporate Visions. Craig Nelson at a company called iCentera. I think his tagline was portals for mortals but there were a collection of businesses that had specialized tool sets. But there wasn't really a formal identity. So I wouldn't necessarily say that there was one big event. There were these things, people out in the marketplace to begin with. Forrester is a big name. Forrester says, this is something to pay attention to it. People do pay attention to it. So the fact that we had a conference for it, guess what happened. Suddenly you got a lot of people, oh, we're in that category. We're in the sales Enablement category. That's in the public. It's not in a closed network. Now, a lot of the research is behind a firewall that you have to pay for it. But there are a lot of people who pay for that. One of the things that you get as a Forrester analyst is you do inquiries.. We had a policy at Forrester, we'd take a pitch from any vendor whether or not, you were a client of ours. In other words, there's a lot of myths about pay to play and everything like that just aren't true or weren't true. I just know that the way that we did things at Forrester at that time were more above board than people give them credit. So I got, I, I would get presented and pitched as a sales enabling company. I had over a hundred pitches. And they were all over the place. They said, Oh, we're sales enablement and they keep trying to narrow the description and make sales enablement as tight and small a focal point to align to their use cases. So with each one of those vendors, they would promote ideas. So Sabo got raised a lot of money. They promoted their ideas a lot. Corporate visions promoted their ideas. Sometimes they'd hire us. I would speak at some of these things. they would create these environments to have public conversations. aT Forrester, we created councils, which was a different kind of product service. So that basically, instead of just getting access to research, we would have quarterly meetings that I would facilitate we would pick a problem and we would resolve it and then we would make the resolution of that available to only those members. And then we also had a different council, which we're trying to create standards. We're trying to say to the vendors, guys. None of this makes any sense. Your success will improve if you guys can agree on certain standards, the reason I highlight that out is there was a lot of conversations coming from both of those scenarios. We wouldn't publish it. We wanted to create a form where people could argue in the safe zone so that they don't look bad inside their companies chatham House rules, if you will. What we did, though, is when people agreed, they would talk about it. But, of course what happens is when you've got a lot of momentum and a lot of people joining it, Oh, yeah, I've been doing it my whole life. But it was never as agreed to by, this group of people. So to try to enforce some sort of standard or promote some sort of standard to get people to follow it was, challenging,

Erich Starrett:

so maybe a good next step in this LinkedIn that platform played such a big role. You'd probably give it as a supporting actor status in the movie, at least I'm sure. But for anyone tuning in, by the way, I can not highly enough recommend you liking, following, linking. With Scott Santucci and taking the time, not just to pay attention to stuff that's coming out now, but go back and read the previous articles and posts that's where the sales enablement history is. And I'm going to be quoting a good bit from them today. This is from one of Scott's articles. The S E S is all of us. Throughout 2016. Which is the 7 year anniversary where we're at right now, right? We held monthly meetings with interactive open agendas. We'd pick a theme, have a public and facilitated meeting and publish what we agreed to on LinkedIn. Only about 100 people would read our outputs. Walter Pollard and Jen Burns joined us very slowly in our growing network. In our very slowly growing network during this finding our way phase, then I started getting calls from other people around the country wanting to start their version of our group. This was amazing to me because only about a hundred people are reading the article, but somehow linked in as a platform was spreading these seeds. whAt did that look like? those public meetings What kind of format were you using and how did you start to perpetuate that in other areas in response to that outreach?

Scott Santucci:

Let me take this in the chunks. 1st, from a context standpoint when I left. Forrester I joined the Alexander group, which is a management consulting company. When you work in a management consulting company, you go way in depth. So at Forrester, I might get. Eight inquiries a day. So an inquiry would be, I'd have eight 30 minute calls with people all over the world at Alexander group. You'll work on 10 projects a year with the same company. So the depth is greater, but the breadth isn't there. So what I missed, what I loved about being at Forrester is people would, stump the analyst or, challenge you or whatever. And I loved that. So I missed. That interaction of constantly constant new ideas. so the idea was, what if I started a local meetup group? At the time. So let's say 2015 period, I was extremely anti social. I thought social selling was. A bunch of And I'd met Jill Rowley when I was at Forrester. And I just, I really connected with her. And she was challenging me, you gotta do more. And I was like, I don't even understand this. I Was speaking at at a conference for HP and she said, Hey, let me connect you with Tiffany Bova. And I was like, I don't know who that is. It's yeah I know who that is. So I said, okay, I'll try my old school way of networking and you use the social social way. And let's see who gets at her first. I got to her first, but the value of the conversation was way better because Jill was able to give context. So it wasn't like it was in depth, super, super fast. So that made me go, Holy this is way more powerful than I thought. I'm always going to be biased to one relationships. bUt the leverage that Jill showed me by me having to experience it myself, because another thing that I like. about Jill is you just got to do it. You just got to do it. Like she, she'll, I'm not going to say that she pesters everybody, but I like that she does that. Tamara Schenk also like you got to be on social. Yeah. I don't want to, you got to love being challenged like that. I love it. And the reason that I love it is that you always learn something, especially if you do it together. Which happened in like November, 2015 was, this is a lot more powerful. So what does that have to do with the Sales Enablement Society? in December of 2015,, I just gotten back from this really exciting transformation project we worked on with a manufacturing company. And I was happy about it, but I didn't. Only the people in that company knew about it. There wasn't any way to share that. There wasn't like the councils that, that we'd set up at, at Forrester via say, Hey, let's tell a story about what Symantec is doing. Let's tell a story what this company is doing. And that made me sad. aNd also I didn't like being known as an author. I liked, I wanted to have more closer connections with humans. I got this idea of saying, what if I started a local meetup group and instead of doing it by calling people, I decided, Hey, what if I took what I learned from what Jill got me to do? And what if I asked to create this thing online? So I wrote up it was a letter for friends. You can go read it. Cause it's still published out there. I wrote out this this letter for friends. And I looked at my keyboard for at least two hours before I hit send. Cause I was scared Cause I was used to. When I would publish something at Forrester, I'd get 20, 000 views.

Erich Starrett:

Rockstar.

Scott Santucci:

Yeah. It's what you think, right? It's the metrics and, the metrics matter or whatever. And even after I left, when I would write an article on LinkedIn, I get 5, 000 views, 10, 000 views. So I'm like, okay I'm relevant and all that other stuff. But I knew that this letter Probably would be the end of all that. So I thought really deeply about whether to do it or not. I hit send. And I think to this day, even all these years later, it's got a whopping total, like 300 reads so I was like, I really screwed up my career.

Erich Starrett:

Was Jerry Maguire out then? It was like the, I published my manifesto! That hit send part, when he's up all night putting the...

Scott Santucci:

You're right. That was a Jerry Maguire kind of thing. But what happened was so interesting. Because it got engagement. And by engagement, people would call me. And Or people, sent me direct notes. So this article just asked, Hey, is anybody interested in forming a group? And I thought it would be successful if I had five, I called Brian Lambert, who lived in the area at the time, said, You're one of them. You're going to go. So there's four now. The very first meeting we had 16 people. We had to change venues twice. And that's how it got started. So the very first meeting that we had was just a meeting to discuss whether we should have our other meetings or not. And people went around the room and said, this is what sales enablement means to me. And it means something different to everybody. It's wasn't that interesting? What if we texturalized it? And then we started having monthly meetings. I'd call people, I'd send emails to people who, had sales enablement or sales leadership or whatever in the title, in the DC area and invite 'em to participate. What? Do what? Why am I coming? It's I don't know. We're here to figure it out. And we had a theme, but it wasn't a presentation. It was Hey, let's see if we can plot out what the problems are or I presented something that I did way back in the past and I didn't tell anybody. It was my own work. And I said, let's critique it. We beat that up. Everything was conflict oriented, but in a positive way, the goal of figuring out And one of the rules was I published something after each meeting, a standard format which says, here's a topic with a 20 minute overview, a frame. Here are our roles and responsibilities. Here's how we're going to attack it. And here are the, group activities that we need to do. And we do the activities and we read out the feedback and then, argue it out from there.

Erich Starrett:

So when those folks were reaching out to you and going, hey. That meetup thing you're doing where you're using that model and people aren't just showing up with PowerPoint slides, but you're getting actual work done and there's stuff coming out of these things. Did you share that same format out with the other groups that were reaching out to you or what did that package look like?

Scott Santucci:

At this point in time, no one's reached out to me yet. That's never been asked for. So there's no reason to document or anything like that.

Erich Starrett:

I'm asking. You know what I want for Christmas, scott.

Scott Santucci:

Deal. And what would happen over a period of time is people saw these outputs and go, Hey, I want to set up a meetup too. So I got a few of those diRect messages on LinkedIn. None of this is visible. All of this is behind the scenes, which is another Interesting thing that I learned from Jill. Hopefully it's super clear. It took Jill Rowley pushing me to get on LinkedIn. And then I'm eternally grateful for it.

Erich Starrett:

By the way, I just ran into her in Nashville, a few weeks back. This is the hug she said, pass along to you. I love that connection.

Scott Santucci:

Huge fan of her. I think the key, the thing that focus in on is that most people pay attention to the metrics and the clicks, but what is really powerful about social media are the things that people don't see. It's the questions and the engagement that you get from that. So I'm getting these, hey, What are you doing there? Hey I want to say how should I set up a local meetup group? I'm like beats me. I don't even know what we're doing. I really don't. here's my paper trail. I'm publishing everything along the way. You want to follow along? and help me figure out what I'm doing. I just set out with this goal and I want to find people who are like minded that are willing to discuss these things and be curious about it. So along the way, Daniel West, who was a Forrester client and also a Serious Decisions client said, Hey, I want you to meet this guy, Jim. Jim Nenevaji. And I said, no, I don't want to. He was the competitor and they were trying to rip us off. Cause serious decisions started their sales and annual practice afterwards. And I heard from our clients that they were going after our marquee clients. And I'm like, why don't they come up with their own new idea was like my attitude. I'm not meeting him. All right. And then Dan is like, what are you doing? What are you doing? Are you going to be that kind of a baby? You don't even work there anymore. It's he's a good guy. And I'm like, I don't care what good guy he is. And Dan is you gotta do it for me, so I'm like, okay. So there's that theme, right? I, I need you to challenge me on it. And, I met him and we were like brothers in ten minutes. I didn't want to, it took about 10 minutes to where we were like. Long lost best friends in that first conversation. He's Hey, why don't you I'm going to go do this? Council to promote brain shark, but I want to promote. I just want to get people talking about, sales enablement. wHy don't you show up? I was like, yeah that'd be awesome. I'll do that. So I flew out. We were like kids in a candy store, planning that I told him you to just show up at the local DC area sales and marketing meetup group, which was my title. It's super, super clear. I'm a great marketer. So we show up and it was like improv night between Jim and I. Highlighting the key points, and I decided that I was gonna just try to make Daniel West uncomfortable. Because, he put me on the spot there, so I'm gonna just, I'm gonna put him on the spot. And he's a good, he's such a good sport with that. So anyway we wrap up this meeting, and we challenge them to start their own chapter of the San Francisco blah blah blah blah. It's your group. Come up with your own name And it's Daniel. You're the president. YoU figure it out. And that's how that's how the first chapter got born. It was in the same spirit how I got into social by Jill challenging me. By first Daniel challenging me. And me and Jim, deciding, Hey, we're going to challenge him. And then we challenged that group of about 12 people there, which Sheevaun was there too. So you can probably get some good stories from her perspective.

Erich Starrett:

Love it. It was all started on a dare is what we'll call it.

Scott Santucci:

I guess a triple dog dare. I just skipped formality and went right to triple dog dare. I came back and I, we had our local DC so we have a San Francisco chapter, but maybe they won't be affiliated and, I can be part of that 1 and part of this 1, if we don't want to try to link them up. We said, we, try to link them up and in doing so Raul Gupta just ran with it and he made his own website. So the lion logo, Raul did that. He did it all in like a weekend to say, look, if we're going to do this, it can't be as embarrassing, no offense, Santucci, but DC local area sales and marketing meetup group. Isn't, really that great. I was like I agree with you. I'm open to change the name. So SalEnablementism Society, he came up with the, with the lion. He came up with the first, website. It was amazing. And he did it like in a weekend. So we had that and then at the same time, one of the people been contacting me about a local group was Jill Guardia. How would I set this up? And I said do you want to set up just as a local group? Or do we have this DC one and we've got the San Francisco one. Do you want to be part of that? Oh, I want to be a part of that I said, okay we'll have a meeting. We'll go and get it kicked off. In either September or October, we had a meeting there, and their mission was to come up with what's the end game. We co wrote in that meeting what the end state of Sales Enablement should be. We called it the Chief Productivity Officer, and I was, writing down on the screen what people were agreeing to as we were there. There were a lot of people in that that meeting. So Lee Levitt was in that meeting. Mike Kunkel was in that meeting. The founding of the Boston chapter.

Erich Starrett:

Timeline wise, are we in mid 2016 or where we at?

Scott Santucci:

Yeah. It's August, September timeframe So we go, Huh? We got these three. I say to our group, What should we do? Alexander group. We have this conference coming up. I can ask my company whether or not we could get space and, try to have a national meeting. They're like the the Continental Convention. Should this be a national thing? If so, it should be not us running the shots, that's like the central command and control thing that I'm not a part of, so we should do that. Will you guys commit to help? Let's agree on what a number would look like, because the optics for me are going to look terrible if no one shows up. So will we commit to try to get 20 people there? We thought 20 people to show up. On a Friday afternoon in Palm Beach, if you've ever been to Palm Beach, Florida, it's not easy to get to could we get 20 people to fly in to Palm Beach from, around the country? To, have a meeting and set this up. Our goal was 20. yEah, we'll do that. We're going to commit to do these kinds of things, and that's when we decided at that moment in time, we're going to explore whether or not to start the Sales Enablement Society. So the founding meeting that happened in Palm Beach, November 2016 was a meeting to decide whether or not the Sales Enablement Society should be born. That's the backstory. So to to promote that, we just did the same thing. Hey, I'm going to go back to what I learned from Jill Rowley. I'm going to go back and say, I'm going to write, this is what we want to do. So the first thing was I put a mission statement out. Instead of taking a report that people expect from me, I'm going to make an ask. But instead of making an ask to one person, what if I did it to a group of people? I try to extend Jill's idea from one to one to say, what if I did one to many? What if you do it this way? What if you do it that way? So we picked on those nuances and along the way, just by publishing things and using more of the feature set of of LinkedIn. The more you use it, the more it gets difficult to talk about what it is because it's so experiential. So you get you push more of those things out and more people engage. We said, okay, we're going to do the same thing to promote the national meeting. So I wrote a letter If I were to paraphrase the 1st letter for the local meetup group was hi, I'm Scott. I'm looking for business friends. It's, are you not only looking for business friends, but do you think that things could be better? Do you want to make a difference? If so, we're going to convene this we're going to run it like the continental convention, here are rules, and you even wrote up all the rules to follow and everything like that. How did it happen from there to November 19th. A lot of interesting stories behind that. And then what actually happened in that is a lot of interesting stuff too. a

Erich Starrett:

That was an awesome flyover. We went from Jill Rowley to Ninivaggi. Then we went to Boston with Guardia and we touched on Sheevaun. But all the way back to that original meetup, I really want to get inside that room. Were there key players? Were there key moments,

Scott Santucci:

I'd love to tell you a story, like a, just a whole thing, just about Walter Pollard.

Erich Starrett:

Awesome. Love Walter.

Scott Santucci:

But I his shining moment is way, is more when you get to the conference in 2017. This event could have gone either way, I almost quit doing it. The meetups. So we started out like our first official meetup, that first meeting to decide whether we should do meetups or not. That had 16 people, That was in February. We had our first official meetup in March. And then we had monthly ones, March, April, May, June, July, August, September. Most of them were at my country club. So we go from, 16 30. So we're getting about 40 people, coming to these things that no one can really describe. And it was a lot of energy. We had very formal ways about making people comfortable. I reached out to each individual person beforehand and talked to them, to say, you know who you should talk to, you should talk to this person. And I made sure I made introductions, all those things. So one of the people that came to the meetings, there's a guy named Brian Murphy. Got a sales background that I just love to death. And the topic that we were discussing were charters and how important they were. we basically had two camps, one camp saying that they're super important. Other people are like, look, they're just forms we fill out. Our company gives us a form and we fill it out over the weekend. And at, in the middle of the table, I had my computer and it was a projector up. And Brian Murphy got really frustrated at that whole attitude of we just fill it out and he got up And he took control of my computer without asking me, which I loved so much. I'm like, huh, I wonder where this is going. He googled the Magna Carta and he lectured us how this is a charter and how important they are and they change history. And if you don't take it seriously,, you're an imbecile or something. He was so passionate. And I'm like, thank you, man. That was great. And the reason he's frustrated is because the guy's a sales leader his whole life and he's sick and tired. Of these half assed efforts. Is that right? It's absolutely right. It's okay, so somebody's just got to be able to translate for him when they're when people, so oh, I understand. He's not actually attacking me. It's like, how could I don't even know you, you have to create that forum to let people. understand where their passions come from. That was such a huge deal. I was smiling so much to get that kind of creative conflict and passion. I was happy that I wasn't having to be the one to push it because if I can be the good cop and make sure everybody gets on. And I said, one thing that I'm going to ask you guys, can we have that actually be at one of your locations? Yeah, because I'm picking up the tab for these so Lisa Pitner says, yeah, I, let's have it at our place. And she worked at Cisco has this amazing facility in downtown DC. We could go do a happy hour. .I'm thinking, Hey, if I can get 40 people to all the way out in Ashburn, which is in the suburbs, we should probably be able to get 50 people. At Cisco's headquarters downtown with a happy hour afterwards. So I'm like, all right, let's test this. I'm thinking, what can I do here to put more skin in the game? And I'm like, okay, let's see what else we can do with the social media stuff. So I called up the CMO at the time at seismic. And I said Hey, Daniel we've got this thing. You guys have this podcast. You should do a podcast live. And watch this organic thing happening. Cause I'm thinking, there's going to be at least 25 people there. So we had this meeting. It turns out it's hard to get the DC. It was in the summer. People wanted to go to the beach or whatever, but only six people showed up. So at the happy hour, I was just pouting and I was stewing and Lisa came up and sat next to me. This was so smart of her. And she said, what's up? And I said, eh, I don't want to talk about it. Are you mad about something? Yeah, I'm super pissed. Like we've only got six people there and she's, she looked at me and she said, get over yourself, unquote. And I looked at her like, strangely, she said, look, is everybody having fun? Did you care to even ask whether I thought it was a great meeting or not? I got six other people here to give me new ideas on my own turf. And you're over here moping And I'm like, You're so right. What I was, I said, why am I embarrassed? I'm embarrassed for me. I'm embarrassed because, I was trying to promote all this stuff up, probably did it a little bit too early. And then Lisa and Nicole O'Brien and I had drinks and had the most fun, funniest conversation I think I've had in my life. Afterwards. If Lisa wouldn't have come to me and told me to literally get over myself. What's wrong with you? How come you didn't ask me whether I thought it was a good meeting or not? I would have stopped doing it. The whole way that all this worked was people challenging each other in a very positive way. So that would be the one thing that I think is incredibly important that in all change initiatives. you're going to have those pivotal moments and either you stew on it and don't talk about it or you confront it and go, hell are you talking about?

Erich Starrett:

And that's one I've never heard. I love it. I love it. That was a great story, Scott. but let's get in a time machine and head to Palm Beach. which is exactly what we will do. And part two, please tune back in. We'll see you soon.

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